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Military R&R Contract Flights Other t...

Pepperd.com » General Space-a Forum » Military R&R Contract Flights Other than Patriot Express « Previous Next »

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Bob Dart
Senior Member
Username: Bobdart

Post Number: 1506
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 208.114.116.98
Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 02:06 pm:   

Ed, thanks for the very professional review of this potential mover. I believe I now have a better understanding. I'm in NW Spain near Vigo right now and will keep my eye more open whenever I start to head home.
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David
Advanced Member
Username: Reverie4401

Post Number: 185
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 74.230.239.5
Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 01:50 pm:   

x loadmaster, I can understand your frustration if you live near Atlanta. Thanks for the info. I hope maybe someone in the Pepperd world has some way of breaking through the log jam. It would benefit all service members and retires. David (xnavigator)
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Ed Williams
Senior Member
Username: Hooter55

Post Number: 713
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 140.32.107.150
Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 11:30 am:   

Mark, David, and xLoad have good info as well. One of the things we stressed while I toiled at USTRANSCOM was these flights were dedicated to the troops.....SAAM flights (Special Assignment Airlift Missions). Bought and paid for just for the troops out of Atlanta and Dallas.

Taking the opportunity to ask the Troop Commander doesn't hurt, but don't be surprised if you get a "no go".
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dinotars
Senior Member
Username: Dinotars

Post Number: 6637
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 173.169.151.24
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 11:07 pm:   

Martha,
If you are serious about finding out about flights from non military bases check with the FBO at that location.See the list on spacea.net.
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Cherry C.
Senior Member
Username: Cherry

Post Number: 6294
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 71.163.18.160
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 10:30 pm:   

In addition to Ed's valuable insight into why a plane may be "fully loaded" when there are empty seats, here's another that I learned some years ago when flying on a Lockheed L-1011 that was the aircraft being used by the contractor on the Pat Ex from BWI.

According to the person who explained this to me, the government has certain standards for aircraft amenities on the Patriot Express, one of them being number of passengers allowed per lavatory. Under gov't rules the L-1011 did not have "enough" lavs to let the contractor fill all the seats. Therefore there would be a bunch of vacant seats on every flight even when the maximum number of passengers was aboard, so it would LOOK as if more could have been accommodated but under the terms of the contract, this was not so.
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xLoadmaster,M.Lewis
Intermediate Member
Username: Cblmelga

Post Number: 143
Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 76.17.91.102
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 05:56 pm:   

Atlanta outbound,forget it.The contract flgts. have been passing thru Atlanta for years,the Army,as far as i know, has no protocol, or system for processing spacea pax.The reason spacea got on at Rota it's a AMC Terminal,AMC left when the PAT EX.left Atlanta.i live 30 minutes from the airport and beleive i checked this out.There is no way you could find the troop commander in the airport the size of Atlanta, compare the size in your mind, Rota vs Atlanta.Believe me, it's very frustrating to see these aircraft coming and going with empty seats.But thats the way the ball will bounce from time to time,it has gone my way many, many times during my spacea career. xloadmaster
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David
Advanced Member
Username: Reverie4401

Post Number: 184
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 74.230.239.5
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 02:27 pm:   

Two points, this flight did not appear to be contracted to a specific unit as there were members of all three services on board and there were duty passengers from both zones. It appears most passengers were on R&R leave back to the states. Another point is that the flight we were on was not posted by the Rota poster. This indicates that the Rota passenger reps did not expect this flight to have Space Travelers. We were lucky to be at the passenger terminal and ask the passenger reps to check with the "Troop Commander." Otherwise we would have waited for a later flight.

The point of this thread is to explore whether we (as SPATS) are missing some flights that we could bid on if there was availability. For example, flights out of Dallas as noted by Martha and presumably Atlanta out bound. I would guess there are flights in bound to the US through gateways in Europe that we could also bid on, such as Frankfurt. David
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Mark Prance
New member
Username: Mprance

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2009
Posted From: 205.188.116.208
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 11:39 am:   

Contract flights are flights that are bought and paid for by units for their deployment. Example would be that a army unit needs "x" amounts of seats to take their unit from point A to point B. A aircraft is paid for by that unit for that deployment and if their are additional seats available it would be up to the troop commander to release those seats if he wishes to. This is my understanding having worked in ATOC.
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Tony Cabrera
Senior Member
Username: Tonyc

Post Number: 1569
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 83.36.7.117
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 07:47 am:   

David, while I'm in the area, I call the Rota Terminal recorder daily. That is where I learned about the two flights. I don't recall seeing the flights posted on the board the day I visited the Terminal.

Ed, thanks for your valuable information regarding these flights. It kinds of clear up what it's all about.

Being this an important issue, I suggest comments from others based on their expertise.

Happy travels!
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Ed Williams
Senior Member
Username: Hooter55

Post Number: 711
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 24.96.140.175
Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 08:36 pm:   

From experience working these flights when I was at USTRANSCOM it goes like this:

There may be 300 seats (example) on an aircraft, but they have to set a limit on the weight of the troops and their baggage. This is called "Allowable Cabin Load". It is figured in with the weight of the aircraft, fuel, and any cargo to come up with what can be released in the way of seats. Sometimes only 200 seats can be released based on an average weight figure per soldier/sailor/marine/airman given. Say the ACL given for seats is 80,000 lbs. If the avg wgt per person is figured at 400 lbs. (person plus their gear), you only get 200 seats. The avg wgt per person can fluctuate based on whether the personnel are on R&R, but you get the idea.

Bottom line....it never hurts to ask!!!
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Martha Fralia
Advanced Member
Username: Mjfralia

Post Number: 363
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 75.141.137.233
Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 08:30 pm:   

These flights also go in and out of DFW but I don't know how to get information on them.
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David
Advanced Member
Username: Reverie4401

Post Number: 183
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 74.230.239.5
Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 08:23 pm:   

Tony, you must have been in Rota on Saturday. To clarify, they had the flights on their work sheets and they shared the times with us, but they did not post the flights on their large flat screen TV. The reason for that was they felt the flight would not take any SPATS. My question goes beyond Rota as it appears there are flights out of Atlanta going the other way that could be useful for SPATS. When we were in Atlanta on Sunday, there were two R&R flights that arrived in the afternoon, plus possibly one other a few hours behind. These flights seem to be off the radar. The flight we flew on was not a Patriot Express flight. You hit in a nutshell that more experienced SPATS may be familiar why these flights are not captured easily in the SpaceA arena. David
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Tony Cabrera
Senior Member
Username: Tonyc

Post Number: 1568
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 83.36.7.117
Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 07:45 pm:   

Perhaps I'm not the right person to comment on a topic like this, but as I understood things in the past, rules are that available empty seats in the Pat Ex should be used to a maximum, as it would be a return-on-investment to the government. My question is, why shouldn't it be the same for these contract R&R aircraft? When I called the Rota Terminal recorder last week I found out about the two flights, as they were announced, even with their show times. So, if they were recorded, why did the Pax Rep discouraged these Spats from even considering the flight? I really don't understand and believe there's a piece of communication missing some place along the line. For those who are familiar with the rules, perhaps you can advice the rest of us about this, as more of these flights will probably flow throughout the future.

Happy travels!
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dinotars
Senior Member
Username: Dinotars

Post Number: 6634
Registered: 06-2003
Posted From: 173.169.151.24
Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 05:59 pm:   

These flights are hard to predict.If you are on scene when one passes through, try to get on and take advantage of it, if selected for the flight.
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David
Advanced Member
Username: Reverie4401

Post Number: 182
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 74.230.239.5
Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 05:46 pm:   

SPACE A on Contract flights other than Patriot Express. Earlier this week, we had the opportunity to Space A on a contract R&R flight coming from the sandbox to Atlanta. We boarded in Rota. This is the first I have heard of these flights being available for Space A. In fact, the passenger reps in Rota did not post the flight and discouraged us from even considering the flight. They said that Space A opportunities were up to the "Troop Commander." After the plane landed in Rota (they staged with just refuel and crew change), the passenger reps asked the "Troop Commender" if they could take Spats after some gentle prodding. The "Troop Commander" ok'd four of us. 9 hours later were were in Atlanta, after 4 movies and two meals. There were approximately 50 empty seats on the plane. The duty passengers from from all over with most on R&R leave.

My question is how does the SPAT community find out about these flights, both outbound and inbound, and why did the passenger reps assume that we would not be allowed on the flights. Is there some regulation prohibiting SPATS on these flights?

Has anyone else had experience with these R&R flights? David

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