Bumped Enroute - The Rules?

Author Message   dinotars Senior Member Username: Dinotars Post Number: 6733 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 173.169.151.24 Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 06:03 pm:    RB, Appreciate your relating the situation and your report on the fact that correct procedures were followed at Lajes regarding pax removal.   RB New member Username: Barneyrr Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2010 Posted From: 132.25.0.206 Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 12:23 pm:    Bob Dart..... Thanks for the respones at quoting the regs. It appears the Lajes terminal did everything correct. Additional seats were needed at Lajes for Space-R pax that Souda did not and could not have seen if they were added after the fact. As a result the person with the lowest date/time stamp was bumped. I just wanted to know how it worked for sure. It was done fairly. Unfortunately this family paid the price, but when flying space-A you have to expect the worse. We don't have much room to complain, because the price is right.   xLoadmaster,M.Lewis Advanced Member Username: Cblmelga Post Number: 157 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 76.17.91.102 Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 05:06 pm:    Mike,in the old days i was always in the terminal chit chatting with the spats, that was the only place to get something to eat, nowadays a lot of the terminals don't have a place to eat, so you never see the crew.   Mike Schukert Senior Member Username: Mike_s Post Number: 517 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 74.243.10.18 Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 04:47 pm:    Re: Don Schreiber's 23 May post. One has to wonder how many more special accommodations might occur if aircraft commanders/load masters were more accessible to passengers (or just breathed the air in the pax terminals once in awhile!). It's been my experience that such contact possibilities are more likely to occur in non-AMC-controlled Army/Navy/Marine facilities. Air Force terminals, by contrast, seem to make a concerted effort to physically separate crew members from passengers. Who was it that observed that life is a series of sub-optimizations interspersed with missed opportunities?   dinotars Senior Member Username: Dinotars Post Number: 6731 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 173.169.151.24 Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 12:25 pm:    Only the pax rep at Lajes can relate authoritatively the reason this procedure was applied in the pax removal at the enroute station.   Rob-N-sig Advanced Member Username: Robnsig Post Number: 308 Registered: 12-2008 Posted From: 80.21.203.232 Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 04:50 am:    I wonder if it was determined that the terminal in Souda Bay used too many seats when it granted the Cat 3 family of four a ticket all the way to Norfolk. I know that each station gets so many Space-A seats on the Pax-EX and if you are lucky enough to get manifested all the way thru from one station, when you get to another station, you don't have to try again for a seat if you are a lower cat. You are golden. My daughter and I a couple of summers ago caught the Pax-EX from Sig to Lajes to Norfolk. There was not enough seats for Sig to give us a ticket to Norfolk but we could get to Lajes and try and continue on using their space-A seats. When you got to Lajes, they had completed roll call and we did not make the cut because we got there after it was done. We spent three days there until we made it to Ramstein and then on to Dover. I am not sure but I think it has something to do with that station giving up too many seats in the first place. I am not sure because I was not there. Or is could have be an oversight by the Lajes reps who needed to get 4 people off and saw this family as a quick solution.   Martha Fralia Advanced Member Username: Mjfralia Post Number: 383 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 75.141.137.233 Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 02:26 am:    What actually happened is there was a C-130 leaving for Souda Bay about an hour later and we were told anyone who was bumped from the previous flight could turn in their boarding pass and get a boarding pass for the next flight. This was done before rollcall.   Martha Fralia Advanced Member Username: Mjfralia Post Number: 382 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 75.141.137.233 Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 02:19 am:    Top of the list for ALL passengers.   Dakota Ray Senior Member Username: Rhammer Post Number: 447 Registered: 05-2007 Posted From: 69.62.147.217 Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2010 - 08:41 pm:    Martha, Top of the list for all passengers or top of the list for Cat VI? The next flight, would you have been manifested before a Cat 3-Cat 5?   dinotars Senior Member Username: Dinotars Post Number: 6725 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 173.169.151.24 Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2010 - 08:28 pm:    Martha, On what base did the passengers removal take place?   Martha Fralia Advanced Member Username: Mjfralia Post Number: 381 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 75.141.137.233 Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2010 - 08:22 pm:    After being manifested on a flight to Souda Bay and on the bus at the aircraft, it was determined a mistake had been made with the weight and all Cat VI passengers were bumped. We went to the top of the list on the next flight to Souda Bay later that day.   Bob Dart Senior Member Username: Bobdart Post Number: 1538 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 76.29.23.90 Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2010 - 06:00 pm:    RD, AMCI24-101V14 2 OCTOBER 2009 generally appears to apply: 13. Space-A Passenger Removal. When necessary to remove Space-A passengers at en route stations to accommodate Space-R passenger/cargo, the order of selection for removal shall begin with the lowest category passenger with the latest date/time of sign-up as reflected on the manifest. If removed passengers elect to continue travel to their specified destination, they shall be entered into the Space-A backlog using their original date/time of sign-up. If passengers elect a different specified destination, they shall be assigned a new date/time of sign-up and be placed at the bottom of the Space-A register within   Don Schreiber Intermediate Member Username: Donlad Post Number: 54 Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 70.250.94.132 Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2010 - 05:30 pm:    Anecdote alert: Early in my Space-A experience, I was at base--maybe Peterson?--trying to get to McChord. There was a medivac flight taking a circuitous route to McChord and a much later flight expected to fly direct to McChord. Imbued with the spirit of always taking the next one going in the right direction, I encouraged a young active duty SP4 to try for the medivac flight. We both got on it. Unfortunately, at Grissom AB we were both bumped--I guess for patients--I can't remember. Well, Grissom had nothing on the board going west, let alone to McChord. The pax rep there essentially told us we were in deep Space-A doo-doo. The young SP4 was exhibiting some distress, not anger, but melancholy. I can't remember why he was trying to get to Western Washington, but he was in a lot bigger hurry than I was. I felt responsible for encouraging the young troop to get on that medivac flight, so I turned to him and said, "You're going to get to McChord if I have to go find a rental car somewhere and drive you there." At that moment, an AF lieutenant colonel walked past us and seemed to regard us with interest. He continued through the small pax terminal and headed out onto the tarmac. I had no idea that he was the aircraft commander of the plane from which we'd both been bumped. A few minutes later, a breathless crew member--the one who'd told us to get off the plane--hurried up and told us to get our butts back on the aircraft. She explained that the pilot had told her, "I don't care how you manage it, but find those two somewhere to sit on this plane." She did. After another brief stop at Fairchild AB, the SP4 and I were delivered to McChord. When I departed the aircraft, I made a point of going around to where I thought folks in the cockpit could see me and rendered my snappiest salute. I don't know why that LTC had gotten off the plane, but he passed back through the terminal at just the right moment, and he was my hero of the week.   John D. Moderator Username: John_d Post Number: 4507 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 95.208.80.143 Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2010 - 01:52 pm:    RB, Being on the plane first is immaterial. If it becomes necessary to remove Space-A passengers from a mission at en route stations then they should be removed just like a reverse roll-call - the lowest category passenger with the worst date/time of sign-up gets removed first and then continue down the list.   dinotars Senior Member Username: Dinotars Post Number: 6719 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 173.169.151.24 Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2010 - 12:56 pm:    RB, Since you are presently in Lajes,you may inquire how this procedure was conducted by the terminal.We would appreciate it if you would provide their explanation for applying the removal as you reported.   dinotars Senior Member Username: Dinotars Post Number: 6718 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 173.169.151.24 Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2010 - 12:48 pm:    RB, For the procedure to be followed on passenger removal enroute,see: http://spacea.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Space-A_Travel_FAQ#Once_I.27m_manife sted_on_a_flight.2C_can_I_be_.22bumped.22_and_forced_to_give_up_my_seat.3F This is in Item 7.2 spacea.net. How this was applied in the case you describe will have to be explained by the Pax reps at Lajes.   RB New member Username: Barneyrr Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2010 Posted From: 194.65.73.106 Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2010 - 07:49 am:    This occurred Friday, 21 May on the rotator from downrange through Souda, Naples, and Lajes..... A family of 4 (Cat 3) boarded at Souda and was manifested through to Norfolk. A family of 4 (Cat 3) boarded at Naples (after Souda) and was manifested through to Norfolk. Upon arrival at Lajes, the family from Souda was bumped for miscalculated duty pax out of Lajes. My Question....The sign-up time for the Souda family was after the Naples family, but since they were on the plane first and manifested through why was the Souda family bumped instead of the Naples family? Me....Stuck in Lajes, although we knew it when we got on at Naples. Should get out Sunday or Monday. Caio...