Family of 5 East Coast to Europe end ...

Author Message   Allison Elkins Member Username: Allisonrae Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 67.62.93.91 Posted on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 08:28 pm:    Hey, I also have to get back overseas at the end of june. But, wanted to let you know. Last summer, while flying back to Lakenheath (currently stationed there) we meet a family of four trying to get in Europe and hadn't had luck with any Ramstien flights at two different bases, and they got on a Mildenhall flight, then flew Ryan Air to Europe. Everytime I've gone to fly back to England theres been few Cat 3,4,or 5. Its usually more Cat 6 than anything. I'm assuming most fly to Germany if given the chance.   April DeLaRosa New member Username: Delarosacalm Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2010 Posted From: 62.153.212.23 Posted on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 01:45 pm:    Don't forget to consider that the DOODs schools in Europe get out on June 17th. That will need to be taken in consideration for your return trip!   Joseph Thomas Sermarini New member Username: Jsermarini Post Number: 5 Registered: 04-2010 Posted From: 174.106.166.111 Posted on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 01:44 pm:    Thanks again for all the tips. We certainly will be flexible.   James E. Kale Advanced Member Username: Jimiam Post Number: 174 Registered: 09-2006 Posted From: 96.231.67.207 Posted on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 11:08 am:    You've gotten some great advice here, so I'll add just a few things. Flexibility is what it's all about. We've had some rotten luck - tried for Alaska and had to settle for Hawaii, tried for Lajes and failed - ended up touring Belgium by way of Ramstein instead. Just this spring, we were looking for a flight to Spain on Monday, and on Tues. flew to Crete. Try for any flight over the pond, and failing that, think about the West Coast. When you are ready to leave, don't rely on the flight schedules posted here alone. They change faster than a baby's diapers. Keep in touch with all the possibilities by phone. Schmooze a little with the pax reps, and you may get a bit of extra insight. Don't just ask about flights, ask what the terminal is looking like, are any Cat VIs getting out. Throw some extra clothes in the car so that you can make some last-minute switches in the suitcases, ditto with travel books. Germany would be a lot cooler than Spain, for example. Hope you can make it work. It will be a great adventure for the kids.   FHYL Senior Member Username: Fhyl Post Number: 401 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 68.68.130.56 Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 11:55 am:    all the "How To" hints are spot-on. On the tough to get back to CONUS from Europe during the summer rush, I've had some success flying east to go west. Specifically for Europe, I've gone to Aviano or Souda Bay and catch a CONUS bound flights. Why? Because that's where the SPAT line begins. Get manifested all the way to the CONUS MSN destination and remember to have the PSA mark your boarding pass with your "final destination" if the end of the mission is short of home. RISK: "Getting stuck" farther away from where you are trying to go. [But, hey! I'm Cat VI. Foot loose, fancy free....or a DINKIE...Dual Incomes, No Kids, In Europe.] ...and "being stuck" in Europe (or anywhere for that matter) is just another excuse to venture to other places.   Dakota Ray Senior Member Username: Rhammer Post Number: 455 Registered: 05-2007 Posted From: 69.62.147.217 Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 12:42 am:    All the advice is great and "right on the money". You mentioned that you are retired military with 3 children?? Much of your enjoyment will be the preparation of your children and their attitude. It is "kinda" like sitting in a movie theater waiting 15 minutes for the movie to start except this can be hours or days. It needs to be an adventure and they need to participate in it. Only you know how your family will react and how they were "trained" and how they will react. I don't enjoy sitting in a terminal waiting for flights but I make the most of it and really enjoy other people. I actually think it is fun for the first day but several days makes it much different. Many children seem to have a different attitude and tolerance to waiting. Traveling with a family is different than traveling as a couple or by yourself. Happy Trails!!!   Irwin Rovner Senior Member Username: Irovner Post Number: 421 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 66.32.30.56 Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 12:18 am:    Joseph, I agree with everything said about the difficulties you face. Having said that, let me share my experience and you can decide accordingly. I'm Cat VI. To get to Germany, I use a four-base strategy. I usually start with the BWI because the PatEx to Ramstein has as close to a regular schedule as you can get. But I do this in the not-summer season. The point is that I am a 1 to 3 hour drive to three other heavy traffic bases -- Dover, Andrews and McGuire. (Norfolk is also within driving range but seldom flies to Germany. If Rota, Naples, etc., are OK for you, then include Norfolk in our Plan B). If you are packed and ready, you can pick a day when two or more of these bases have flights, hopefully one early in the day and the other later -- head for the earliest show time -- and if you fail, call ahead to the alternate base to insure their flight is still on the board and head out for it. If you fail again, check this website for who has what the next day -- and try again. This has worked for me three times (twice same day, once three days later) and failed once after three days. Once my wife and I got seats from Andrews to Ramstein in late May, We started at Dover -- failed to get on four flights and drove to Andrews -- got out that night. But, getting back the second week of June was a nightmare. We struck out four days -- other CAT VI were waiting 10 days or more. There was a flight to North Dakota that left with empty seats. I didn't consider it because it was on day 2 -- and it's a tough place to get from to anywhere else. After 10 days, I might have decided differently. However, I had read here about a Spat who couldn't get to the east coast, so he took a flight to McChord -- where there was a better chance to get to the east coast. He succeeded to complete his trip while his friends were still waiting in Ramstein for an east coast flight. Knowing June was tough season, I covered myself by signing up at McChord and Travis weeks earlier "just in case." On day four, we got out on a direct (refueled) flight to McChord. About 40 seats offerred and 14 takers -- with dozens left behind still waiting who passed up the empty seats. So, I arrived at McChord, already signed up -- with at least 50 days signup. The next day, we failed on a flight to Travis which had a later flight that day to Andrews. Day 2 McChord offered a Charleston flight with lots of seats. Other fellow Ramstein Spat's took it. If I had been smart, I would have checked Charleston by computer or by phone because I discovered later that there was a Charleston to Andrews flight that night I could have connected with. On Day 3, we lucked into a direct Andrews flight. OK, it took six days to get back to Andrews, but that was better than 10 days or more and still stuck in Ramstein. As John G. says, Can it be done?? -- yes, but even with luck, don't expect it to be easy. There's one basic point still to consider. If you don't try, you will fail! You just have to be sure that everyone of your group understands what they are facing -- and not be disappointed if it doesn't work. Decide ahead of time what circumstances determine when you quit and go home -- your decision, parent's decision, majority vote, specific number of days, whatever, but be sure every is ready to live with it. Happy travels, Irv   Bill Mathews Senior Member Username: Bill_mathews Post Number: 1216 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 173.71.47.192 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 09:39 pm:    After the end of June, getting home to CONUS/East Coast should be pretty good. Check the Ramstein Last Category Moved postings and you will see things are looking better now, flying out of Ramstein... For your return, any flight to the East Coast is good; or even the West Coast if no East Coast flights (flying West to go East/home can work). We like to find a sure flight on the outbound leg; then if we are delayed on the return, as you say, you are still in Europe eating the food and drinking the whatever. Delaying on the outbound leg means sitting around waiting; and/or driving up and down the road to Bases hoping for the best. Not good for SpaceA morale.   Joseph Thomas Sermarini New member Username: Jsermarini Post Number: 4 Registered: 04-2010 Posted From: 174.106.166.111 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 08:30 pm:    "What if your "some time limit beyond" is on the return trip to the States, rather than on your out-going leg? This is where the "be prepared for additional food, lodging and expensive, last minute commercial tickets should you be time restrained upon your attempted return." comes into play." Very true, but being stuck in Europe doesn't sound that terrible (as long as the hotels aren't all booked). I think we are up for the adventure. Fortunately I work for myself, so I don't have to worry about running out of vacation days. I imagine it would be very expendive to buy return tickets without buying in advance. I suppose that is the biggest financial risk.   Bill Mathews Senior Member Username: Bill_mathews Post Number: 1213 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 173.71.47.192 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 08:18 pm:    When Charleston shows 2-3 flights to Europe (anywhere) head there (5 hr drive) and hope for the best. You don't have a good back up plan except to head back home and wait till another better day.   Joseph Thomas Sermarini New member Username: Jsermarini Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2010 Posted From: 174.106.166.111 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 08:17 pm:    I really appreciate all the help here. The publications you can buy at the PX left me with a lot of questions. I will definitely post a trip report and if I ever become an experienced Space-A traveler will payback by answering questions here. Thanks!   John R Garrison Senior Member Username: Majorg Post Number: 2677 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 208.81.157.86 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 08:08 pm:    Joseph: " Of course there is some limit beyond which I might as well buy commercial tickets (or more likely just stay home)." What if your "some time limit beyond" is on the return trip to the States, rather than on your out-going leg? This is where the "be prepared for additional food, lodging and expensive, last minute commercial tickets should you be time restrained upon your attempted return." comes into play. This can be very disconcerting to families who find themselves in this situation. Yes, and if you do take the trip, please write up a trip report upon your return. Happy travels, John   Earl Senior Member Username: Myramstein Post Number: 784 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 173.105.161.230 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 07:44 pm:    Joe, The more days you have on your sign up sheet, the better off you are. If at all possible never walk into a terminal starting at day one. I look at the date I want to fly out and back up 45 days. That is the day I sign up for out. For the return trip I use the same. Try to estimate the day I want to start home and back up 45 days. That is my sign up date back. I sign up out and return before I even leave the states. Norolk has the catB mission. Commerical type of plane. Over the last yeaR, space-a seats out of Norfolk has gone up and down. For a while there were few, if any, seast out of Norfolk. Then things were better..then worse..you get what we are telling you. If you do not get out of Norfolk then drive to Andrews and try for the Ramstein flight (C-17). If a no go then you have option of heading to BWI (leave car at Andrews and ride metro system to BWI -- that saves the parking fee at BWI). If no go there then head to Dover and then McGuire. If no go then...well you had a nice tour of the east coast. Pack light. This is very improtant. Not only makes it nicer for you getting around but if a C-21 flight shows up and you are 30lbs or less ..then you are on. But, with such a large group your odds of getting on a C-21 are slim. But I have seen it done with a group of 5 before. Do not forget to sign up at all the places you think you may fly out of. Also, sign up at various places in Europe for the return. Never know may ride train, or fly commerical, to another base. Good luck. Give the board some feed back how it went.   Tony Cabrera Senior Member Username: Tonyc Post Number: 1593 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 67.224.235.165 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 07:39 pm:    Joseph, Since "peak time" is the only time you and your family are able to get to Europe, don't give up your hopes. Just be patient, pray, and have a Plan "B" available just in case. Furthermore, it would be very interesting to find out what happened with your so desired trip. So, please post your trip report to let us know how everything went. The best luck to you and happy travels!   Joseph Thomas Sermarini New member Username: Jsermarini Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2010 Posted From: 174.106.166.111 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 07:22 pm:    Thanks for the info. I have read the FAQs and many of the discussion threads. Some of my thoughts follow, please let me know if I don't make sense or any other advice you have. Unfortunately, peak time is the only time for us. The kids are still going to school. Potentially saving the cost of 5 tickets to Europe means I can probably sensibly spend more waiting cost than two people could. Of course there is some limit beyond which I might as well buy commercial tickets (or more likely just stay home). WP would be a long way to go and then be disappointed. If I could be confident, it wouldn't be too far. Dover, Norfolk, BWI or Charleston are a lot closer to eastern NC and driving home disappointed would be much more tolerable. It seems with Dover, Norfolk and BWI it might even be possible if one flight is missed to drive to another one of those locations, if schedules make that sensible. I read at least one post where something like this worked out for one traveler. I just submitted the sign up today. If I wait 45 days, are my odds a lot better? Thanks again for the advice and thanks in advance for any additional tips.   TR Advanced Member Username: Travel_ready Post Number: 251 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 74.192.161.189 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 06:37 pm:    Joseph, also consider Charleston as a viable option.   Earl Senior Member Username: Myramstein Post Number: 783 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 173.99.143.71 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 06:28 pm:    John, sorry for saying same thing you mentioned. I posted about the same time you did and yours got on first. Good advice.   Earl Senior Member Username: Myramstein Post Number: 782 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 173.99.143.71 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 06:25 pm:    Joe, if you haven't done so yet, please take a look at the FAQs on here. Very helpful info there. This same question was addressed the other day on here. Scroll down and you can see the replies made to it. No, Norfolk may not be the best. Depends on flights, pax taken, missions etc. Norfolk mainly heads to Rota, Naples, Sig, Souda Bay and beyond. Other places may also do the above and German, UK, northern Italy etc. As a family of 5 and cat 6 you may have a hard time getting out of the high volume ports such as Dover, McGuire, BWI, etc. That is peak time. But, it can be done. Pack light, pack light..be flexible..be flexible... Keep an open mind...it is like playing chess. You say you don’t mind waiting. But, waiting and waiting equals spending and spending. You will have to get lodging, buy food, and other associated cost. The tab can run up and you have not gotten off the ground. And haven’t even talked about wear and tear on you and family members..Also, your nerves. Suggest you sign up well in advance so you have a good number. That applies to the return leg as well. Also suggest you take a look for other places to fly from such as Wright Patterson, Rickenbacker, etc. You mentioned end of June. It may not help you but Wright Patterson has flights to Spain and Germany every week. Thursday of this week there is a C-17 heading from WP to Ramstein -- nonstop flight. C-5 departed yesterday (Tue) to Ramstein. You may luck out and make it to Europe and back...but personally I feel your odds are slim. Possibly wait until September? Last summer cat 6 with family members did get out of WP. And they have been getting out the last few days to Europe.   John R Garrison Senior Member Username: Majorg Post Number: 2676 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 208.81.157.86 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 06:24 pm:    Joseph: Welcome to the Board! If you have not yet done so, please familiarize yourself with JohnD's SpaceA Pages (link top left), the general layout of this site and the Search Function (magnifying glass at top center) of this site. Nearly all questions can be answered from those three sources. Having read thru the FAQs is a great start and I would suggest reading thru the other sections on JohnD's site as well. In relation to your proposed trip, traveling SpaceA to/from anywhere on the East Coast to Europe in the summer as a Cat VI will be very challenging. We try to avoid the Summer (15 May to 15 Sep) as this is typically one of the busiest times (Christmas (15 Dec-10 Jan) being the other) with a lot of competition for spacea. Please ensure that you are prepared to spend more time in terminals than you can imagine. Also be prepared for additional food, lodging and expensive, last minute commercial tickets should you be time restrained upon your attempted return. As stated often on this site, experienced SPATS avoid Christmas and Summer travel whenever possible. In sum, can it be done??..Yes, Just be mentally prepared for things to not go as smoothly as you might be expecting...and be pleasantly surprised when they work out. Happy travels, John PS: "Is it realistic to think we can get 5 seats to Europe or should I forget it? " Realistic...IMHO, no. But you might be lucky!   Joseph Thomas Sermarini New member Username: Jsermarini Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2010 Posted From: 174.106.166.111 Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 05:36 pm:    This will be my first attempt at Space A (if we make the attempt). Even with all the help here I still have questions. We are in NC but can drive anywhere in the east for departure. We want to go anywhere in Europe about 20 June. I am retired. Waiting is not a big problem for us. Is it realistic to think we can get 5 seats to Europe or should I forget it? What are the best possible departure points for us? (Seems like Norfolk?) Thanks.