Can I fuss for a minute???

Author Message   Dakota Ray Senior Member Username: Rhammer Post Number: 438 Registered: 05-2007 Posted From: 69.62.147.217 Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 11:52 pm:    Can't quite believe "the crew chief had all of us wait on the aircraft"?? It is almost as believable as "I talked to the crew". Unless you saw the "front end crew" at billeting or the cafeteria, it was probably not the crew but someone else in a flight suit that might be flying on that plane and it very likely was a maintenance person. Some of you know which personal will pass info and some of you just assume everyone on the plane passes info. Sorry, but not everyone is coordinating with everyone else mainly because of a time factor. Glad you got to Whidbey Island though. That was the main purpose. Happy Trails!!!   Ted Lamb Senior Member Username: Ted_l Post Number: 1026 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 71.189.7.202 Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 08:36 pm:    Mike's account reminds me of the trip we took from N.I. to Whidbey, via Nellis. The N.I. schedule showed 121 seats from N.I. to Nellis, and 121 from Nellis to Whidbey. At roll call time, it was announced that there would be only 5 seats from Nellis to Whidbey, and 5 Cat II's were selected for those seats. The rest of us were told that we could board, and be manifested to Nellis, with a chance that some seats could open up to Whidbey. Figuring that the worst case scenario was that we'd be stranded in Las Vegas, we boarded. At Nellis, the crew chief had all of us wait on the aircraft, whilst he got an accurate number for those boarding to Whidbey. As it turned out, the prospective count was overstated, and everyone was manifested to Whidbey.   Mike Schukert Senior Member Username: Mike_s Post Number: 495 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 76.161.183.54 Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 07:53 pm:    Another example of the flexibility of Navy pax reps versus the rigidity of their Air Force counterparts occurred this morning at NAS Jax. Bucking the odds, I got manifested on a C-40 to NB Norfolk in spite of the fact that, due to a large troop movement, the NAS Jax recording was reporting zero seats for the past two days. Upon arriving at the terminal I told the pax reps that I was aware of the zero space-a seat situation, but was willing to bide my time in the event that all 121 seats on the plane weren't filled. They had no objections whatsoever, and said that they'd read me in on the situation as soon as they spoke to the crew. Within minutes I was informed that only 111 troops would be boarding the plane leaving 9 open space-a seats in addition to the one taken by yours truly. Any bets as to the outcome of this scenario had it taken place at a typical AMC terminal?   Jack T. Paxton Senior Member Username: Jpaxton Post Number: 835 Registered: 07-2003 Posted From: 24.27.231.67 Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 02:29 pm:    Dirk/all: As many of you know I have a good relationship with a former AMC PAO now civilian AMC PAO at Scott. Am going to email him and direct him to this thread. Who knows, maybe the AMC CG will avail himeslf of an "under cover" assignment. Certainly cannot hurt.   ed williamson Advanced Member Username: Regnav Post Number: 186 Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 76.114.109.206 Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 01:30 am:    Bending the subject/thread a bit, but you may find it funny, as do I now. Not then. In '68 I worked for awhile for a RADM in VN and frequently accompanied him on trips where he was assigned his own a/c. Once we flew into TSN and did a RON. I heard that the PX in Cholon had some small refrigerators, and seeing an opportunity to keep my Old Milwauke (anyone remember that x#$% stuff in VN?)cold I hied out there to find a hundred or so ROK troops in line. The ROK troop in front of me bought the last one. I let out a string of Old Navy cussing that got the attention of the Army Sgt in charge. He beckoned me over and asked where I was stationed. When I told him with the 9th ID in Can Tho, he said hang on till those ROKs are gone and I'll get you one. Well, the a/c had 14 seats, as I recall, and the Admiral asked, as he always did, if anyone in the terminal needed a ride to Danang. The a/c then had one seat left so the Admiral said, "load your fridg Willy." All was well until we got about halfway through the taxi when the pilot told the Admiral that there was the wife of a VN Navy officer at the terminal who needed a ride. Yep, back we went and my fridge was bumped. Last I saw of it, out the window of the a/c, it was setting on the tarmac. That, I think, was the ultimate bump: not just an active duty wife, but a foreign national. In retrospect, the boss (Naval Aviator with a Silver Star from the Battle of Midway) did the right then, back then I didn't think so.   Larry W. Carnes Senior Member Username: Larry Post Number: 1143 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 63.20.61.33 Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 11:48 pm:    Ref Rob-N-Sig's experience with the Navy C40 at Ramstein: I'm not sure how it goes at other AF bases, but communication between transiting Navy air crews and USAF Pax Reps really sucks at HIK. This Jan HIK showed 0F seats on a C40 destined for Mugu, FW and JAX right up to roll call time. Some SPAT in the terminal finally managed to get a message to the C40 crew and they ended up taking about 14 people. I've seen similar things happen twice previously at HIK. Is it the Navy air crew's fault for not following established AMC seat release procedures, or the PAX REPs' for not going the extra mile and calling the air crews to make sure no seats are being released? Who knows!   Phyllis DeLancey Senior Member Username: Phyllis Post Number: 2709 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 99.34.250.201 Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 08:52 pm:    As many of you know we just spent about 4 days in Dover trying to get back to Texas. It was enough to drive you nuts, seeing planes come in and not taking anyone. The first one had some troops, we ask the senior office in the group if we could fly with them they said not a problem, but the plane crew said no. Next plane the emergency lights did not work, so they wouldn't take us. The 3rd. plane arrived with problems on Sunday and was still "broke" when we left the terminal on Thursday about 7 p m for Philly. I had asked the gentleman at the counter, I stood there while he called out to the crew working on the plane and they said they "still" had not found the problem and didn't know how much longer. Well 20 minutes after we left, the plane was fixed. Now I still thing that is odd, that a plane that was broke for 4 days, could have the problem found & fixed in 20 minutes. I have to say that the folks we talked to in the terminal were very nice, but I think there is a brake down on what is going on between the crew of the planes, the repair crew and the terminal desk.   TR Advanced Member Username: Travel_ready Post Number: 231 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 74.192.161.189 Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 06:07 pm:    Agreed. Lots of unsung heroes in the background keeping things together day in-day out.   Dirk Pepperd Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 1001 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 71.203.154.164 Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 06:02 pm:    Ok then I'll just put it out there..... I double dog dare one of the AMC Generals to go undercover! I'm sure there will be many more "atta boys" than letters of reprimand and ass chewings. There are tons of great servicemembers and civilian staff that do a great job. It's just the few boneheads that make things harder than they have to be sometime.   TR Advanced Member Username: Travel_ready Post Number: 230 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 74.192.161.189 Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 05:58 pm:    "Do you really think they would recognize him? Other than noticing the rank, I doubt they would." Compared to the civilian sector, yes, there's a much higher probability that he would be recognized in civilian clothes due to the culture difference and scrutiny in security required for any PAX.   Bill Terry Senior Member Username: Bill_terry Post Number: 655 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 72.216.27.70 Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 05:09 pm:    In response to Dirk's & TR's note, speaking as a one time "General Staffer", the bosses staff only let the boss see what they want him to see. If the query/problem casts aspersions on themselves, it's pigeon holed or answered by a very junior person (like me) quoting a regulation why it ain't gonna happen. I worked for a LTGEN (USATASCOMEUR CG) who was fond of going "in the trenches". Letters of reprimand and busted stripes usually followed. (google LTG Charles Eifler)   D.B.M UK Senior Member Username: Overlandrover Post Number: 5948 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 81.145.102.64 Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 03:53 pm:    TR said "Great show. Too bad the AMC Cdr could probably never pull off making a tour of his AMC pax facilities disguised as a SPAT. His CAC and CoC Photo on the wall would give him away." Do you really think they would recognize him? Other than noticing the rank, I doubt they would.   Mike Schukert Senior Member Username: Mike_s Post Number: 493 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 74.243.3.113 Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 02:33 pm:    TR: As unrealistic as some may view it, I really think that your idea has merit! It could be patterned after the recent "Undercover Boss" TV series. Yea, I know, it'll never happen; but, unless decision makers occasionally feel the pain, changes will never occur.   Nick Fuhs Member Username: Nickfuhs Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2007 Posted From: 96.227.172.147 Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 12:03 am:    Can I add my two cents? Back in the days ( over 20 years ago now) when I was a C-5 Nav at Dover, Norfolk missions to the Med always returned to Dover after loading cargo at Norfolk to both refuel and change crews. The issue was the time required to preflight the aircraft at Dover, fly to Norfolk and load cargo did not then leave enough crew duty day to fly to Europe. So you either changed crews or spent the night. As the cargo often included perishables for the Fleet or downrange locations, sitting a loaded aircraft on the ground overnight at Norfolk was not an option. Moving perishables for the Navy was a high interest item as delays could result in spoilage especially if the base did not have the ability to re-ice the cargo (Dover did, Rota did not, Norfolk was questionable). I don't recall now if there was a weight problem getting off Norfolk which would have precluded a C5A from putting on enough fuel ( with a cargo load) to get to Spain or not - I do recall that fueling a C5 at many Navy bases seemed to take forever in those days - bear in mind that we would often be loading on 200,000 pounds of Jet fuel.   TR Advanced Member Username: Travel_ready Post Number: 224 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 74.192.161.189 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 10:26 pm:    Great show. Too bad the AMC Cdr could probably never pull off making a tour of his AMC pax facilities disguised as a SPAT. His CAC and CoC Photo on the wall would give him away.   Dirk Pepperd Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 998 Registered: 06-2003 Posted From: 71.203.154.164 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 09:37 pm:    I wonder if anyone from AMC actually reads this stuff.... If I was in charge I would sure want to know what was going on down in the foxhole (kind of like the undercover CEO tv show...). fwiw   Mike Schukert Senior Member Username: Mike_s Post Number: 492 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 74.243.3.113 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 06:29 pm:    I, too, have often wondered why so many AMC terminal pax reps are loath to query ATOC or crew members concerning space-a seats, or why the Air Force seems to go to great lengths to separate passengers from aircrews. It has been my experience that these masters of the horizontal nod are seldom seen at Navy or USMC facilities. I've also noted that most aircrew members (including Air Force types) that I've encountered in base operations, VOQ lobbies, and exchanges and are usually quite approachable. Are "ATOCs" unique to The Air Force? If not, what is the Navy or USMC equivalent?   William Standage Senior Member Username: Charlie13 Post Number: 1071 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 75.172.95.99 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 05:08 pm:    Pls, correct my previous post. The acft in question is actually a T-43, not a T-41, big difference. Mea Culpa.   William Standage Senior Member Username: Charlie13 Post Number: 1070 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 75.172.95.99 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 04:50 pm:    Rob, Let me vent a bit too. Yesterday, I was out at McChord Terminal to use the DSN phone and to "check the schedule". Parked right next to the terminal was a T-41 (Boeing 737, Nav trainer from Randolph AFB). Now that is a nice ride if it's not being used in the training mode. After looking at the three day schedule posted at the counter, I ask the paxrep if the T-41 was going to offer up any seats to where ever it was going. He said, if it ain't on the schedule, no. I could clearly see it wan't listed on the "schedule". I said how about calling ATOC and ask? He repeated his first answer, and was a bit peeved at me for interupting his BS session with a fellow bud behind the counter. I told him that I had flown this same T-41 space-a in the past, and if he was doing his job properly, he'd get on the phone and ask some questions. He glowed back at me and said, "if it isn't on the schedule, it ain't happening". Translation to me, I don't care what's parked right behind my building, and I'm not going to bother to find out. Since I wasn't really travel ready, I decided to not push the noodle too far up the hill. This particular paxrep (a civilian) seemed new to me. I sure hope he was just filling in at the desk, and won't become a regular fixture at my home base. With full disclosure, I have to admit that in general, the McChord paxreps are usually fairly helpful, but I have to chalk this little discourse up to it's going to be one of those days when the stars don't align. As for talking to a crew member, that works best. Unfortunately, most bases take great pains to keep the location of passengers and crew far appart; so good luck finding one, and even better luck getting the crew, ops, and pax terminal to work together for your benefit. Now I feel better too!   John R Garrison Senior Member Username: Majorg Post Number: 2584 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 208.81.157.86 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 04:48 pm:    David: Good advice! Also, my experience is far more of the helpful PaxReps, who go far and above expectations to help us. I try to always write them up (in the positive sense) to their chain of command (usually via a customer service form). Happy Travels, John   David Haynes Advanced Member Username: Oldcutterman Post Number: 205 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.0.55.122 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 04:39 pm:    Rob I haven't had that exact thing happen yet, but have other Pax Reps tell me they couldn't do things that I knew they could. I suggest you send an ICE report to the command. We need to let the AMC know when we have these problems. We can all proably tell stories about helpfull Reps that do call the crew and often get more seats released. David Haynes   John R Garrison Senior Member Username: Majorg Post Number: 2581 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 208.81.157.86 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 02:04 pm:    Ron-N-sig: "I have never had a Pax rep say that before in all my space a travels." I have had the same experience. In addition, I have also had the PaxRep tell that not only would they not ask (because they are "told how many by Ops) but they told me me not to ask the crew directly (I hunted them down in the Lodging Office anyway and got the ride on a 0 F aircraft). Yeah, it's a peeve. Thanks for sharing, John   Alicia W. Advanced Member Username: Lilyfrog67 Post Number: 187 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 70.161.138.250 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:56 pm:    AAwww..that really stinks. Everytime I have been at Norfolk and baggage already checked, boarding pass in hand, one of the pax reps will check with the crew on another flight if I can fly with them...then they just pull my baggage and print out a new boarding pass. The pax reps did this also for me in Rota and they actually said word for word, "This is our job to get people manifested on the flight, we don't wait for the crew to tell us, we ask, that is why we are here." Rob, you will get to Sig, just hang in there!!   Rob-N-sig Advanced Member Username: Robnsig Post Number: 292 Registered: 12-2008 Posted From: 80.148.30.6 Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:33 pm:    Today, I arrived at Ramstein Germany after getting stuck in Dover for 30 hours. Not a big deal but how some of this happen confusses me. I caught a C5 from Norfolk to Dover, that was suppose to continue on to Rota and Sigonella Wed night. When we arrived in Dover, for what reason I don't know but to get gas does not make sense to me, we were told it is broke. So I jump a flight to Ramstein only to be told that is was broke. Now both C5s are parked side by side in Dover and I asked if I can stay with the one going to Rota-Sig Thur afternoon. I was told that they were not letting new paxs on that C5. I told them I was already on it and I was still listed on their roster of paxs. Dover stood firm on the fact that I got on the Ramstein flight, even thought I didn't go any were I could not get back on the first flight. I don't see what diffence it makes. That is fuss number one. Fuss number two. We arrive in Ramstein Friday about noon. On the tarmac was this pretty Navy C40 so you know I was going to ask if it was going to Sig. Sure enough it was. I asked the desk if they would ask the crew if they could take 2 paxs. NO we do not ask the crew, the crew tells us how many they can take. So the plane leaves and here I sit. I have never had a Pax rep say that before in all my space a travels. I have had the crew say no, too close to departure, cargo or something but just to flat out refuse to ask is new on me. There I got it out. Thanks for reading.